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    Popple, William Author Profile
    Author Popple, William
    Denomination Unknown
    Instructive Conference between father and son Text Profile
    Genre Catechism
    Date 1687
    Full Title A rational catechism, or, An instructive Conference between a father and son.
    Source Wing P2966
    Sampling Sample 1
    Text Layout
    The original format is octavo.
    The original contains new paragraphas are introduced by indentation,contains footnotes,
    Annotations
    Downloads
    S. I am much obliged to
    you for giving me this present

    G4

    1
    prospect of the Proofs of Christian
    Religion, and shal not fail
    to observ your Directions in
    the further study of those Authors
    that you recommend unto
    me. Nothing is so important
    as this; and therfore nothing
    shal have so much of my
    care. This is indeed so very
    important, that, supposing a
    Satisfaction therin, I scarse
    know any thing else worth the
    while to inquire after. And
    if I could perfectly attain to
    that freedom from al preoccupation
    which you required
    from me in the beginning of
    this Entertainment, I should
    certainly here cease from troubling
    you with any further Difficultys.
    For I must acknowledg
    that I have now none left
    but such as arise from those
    confused Notions which I had
    2
    formerly perhaps too carelesly
    heaped together. Nevertheless
    I confess that som of them
    yet stick with me: and the
    little relation that I can finde
    they have unto this even Path,
    wherein you conduct me, leavs
    yet som relicks of uneasiness
    in my minde.
    F. Fear not to propound
    them, whatever they ar. We
    shal perhaps finde som more
    easy, and more general Way
    to solv them than thou art
    aware of.
    S. If it be so indeed, That
    the Way to Eternal Happiness
    lys onely in the strict Performance
    of those Dutys which
    the Nature of Things, the Law
    of God, requires from us; what
    shal we then say to al that ceremonial
    Outside of Religion
    which bears so glorious an Appearance
    in the Eys of the
    3
    World? How shal we esteem
    al those notional Systems of
    Theology, those numerous Articles
    of Speculative Belief, that
    have little or no Influence upon
    our Practice? And lastly,
    what shal we judg of the Condition
    of those Persons who fal
    short of that Perfection in
    Practice, which these Rules
    require? I know you see the ful
    extent of these Questions, and
    therfore I desire not to descend
    into Particulars; but
    chuse rather to leav them in
    this general Form, that they
    may be the more fit to receiv
    that general Answer which
    you make me expect.
    F. Thou dost very wel. But
    now, before I enter upon that
    Answer, I think fitting to premise
    one Word in further Confirmation
    of thy Supposition,
    That our Eternal Happiness dos
    4
    really depend upon the Performance
    of our Duty. Tho that
    Supposition be the plain Consequence
    of the strictest Reasoning
    we have been able to
    make by our natural Light,
    yet it wil be useful unto us to
    observ also what Ground it has
    in Scripture. For we must remember
    that the View we ar
    now taking of Religion is properly
    to be confined unto that
    Knowledg we have of it by
    Divine Revelation. And in
    this Method I think I shal
    establish the same Conclusion
    by as clear Testimony as it is
    possible for Words to express.
    If we examin it First by those
    figurative Expressions, of
    knowing Christ, of loving
    Christ, of believing in
    Christ, of being in Christ,
    of being born of God,
    and the like, which al import
    5
    a Title to future Happiness,
    we shal finde no other Mark
    wherby to know that we ar
    in such a Condition, than by
    our Obedience to God's Commandements.
    Again: If we
    look into the great End of Jesus-Christ's
    coming into the
    World, we shal finde indeed
    that it was to save us. But
    how? By sanctifying us.
    It is said, That he became the
    Author of Eternal Salvation.

    But to whom? To them
    that obey him. He offered himself
    a Sacrifice, and bare our
    Sins in his own Body on the
    Tree.
    But why? That we might
    be sanctifyed by his Offering,
    and that being dead
    unto Sin we should liv unto
    Righteousness.
    He redeemed us,
    also, it is tru. But from what?
    From Iniquity: And onely
    consequentially thereunto, from
    6
    Punishment. This we must
    needs take to be the Sense of
    those Expressions, and that
    the great Design of his Appearance
    was to destroy the
    Works of the Devil. For it is
    expresly said that nothing
    Unclean shal in any Wise enter
    into the new Jerusalem, and
    that no Man without Holiness
    shal see God. And hence
    it is that Jesus-Christ himself
    so plainly tels us that it is
    not every one that saith unto
    him Lord, Lord,
    which is to
    say, that acknowledges him to
    be the Messiah, or that believs
    in him so far onely as to pray
    unto him, and to expect Salvation
    by him that shal enter
    into the Kingdom of Heaven,
    but he that doth the Wil
    of the Father who is in Heaven.

    And the Apostles also, therfore,
    so carefully precaution us
    7
    against the Mistake of Thinking
    that the hearing of the
    Law could profit us any thing
    without the doing of it. Let
    no Man deceiv you
    says
    one of them he that doth
    Righteousness is Righteous, and
    he that committeth Sin is of the
    Devil
    And another, Be
    not deceived, God is not mocked,
    for whatsoever a Man soweth
    that shal he also reap.
    There
    lys the Stress of al: It is in
    doing. Or if this be not yet
    sufficient to prove it, we have
    but to reflect, in the last place,
    upon those Conditions by which
    the Scripture declares we shal
    be judged at the last Day. What
    ar those Conditions that wil
    be then demanded in us, so as
    that with them we shal be received
    into Happiness, and
    without them condemned unto
    Misery? In one Word, they
    8
    ar nothing else but Good
    Works. Works of Piety, and
    of Charity. Such Works as we
    have already found to be required
    from us, both by the
    Natural and Written Law of
    God. The Places that witness
    this Truth ar ful and clear:
    Wherfore I refer them with
    al others that I hint at to
    thy carefull Perusal. And I
    think I may now conclude this
    Point firmly established; That
    the performance of our Duty is
    the onely Means by which we
    can expect Success in the working
    out of our Happiness. Tho
    I had hinted at this before, yet
    thy last Questions have made
    me think it needful to repeat
    and fortify it.
    S. And I can not but acknowledg
    that tho I was also
    in a great Measure perswaded
    of it before, yet I have now
    9
    received a new Satisfaction in
    this clearer Conviction. But
    I see not yet the use you intend
    to make of it, in order to
    the solving my foresaid Difficultys:
    Becaus those Difficultys
    ar grounded even upon the
    very Supposition that this
    Doctrin is tru.
    F. Thou wilst quickly perceiv
    that Use. For this Principle,
    being once firmly established,
    will open us an easy
    Passage through al manner of
    Obstacles. Let us apply it to
    thy first Inquiry. What shal
    we say to al the ceremonial Outside
    of Religion? I answer,
    That it is just of so much tru
    Valu as it contributes Help to
    lead us in a Course of Obedience
    to the Wil of God: And
    no more. For that is the onely
    thing of Consequence unto
    us, and nothing is to be esteemed
    10
    further than as it has a
    Tendency therunto.
    S. Since you keep so strictly
    to that Rule, I beg leav to
    ask one Question, by the by,
    before we proceed any further.
    And it is this: Whether has
    this Ceremonial Outside any such
    real Influence upon that more
    substantial part of Religion
    which you place in Practice, or
    no?
    F. Yes, it has. The public
    Assembling of People to
    profess their Adoration of a
    supreme Deity is an Honor absolutely
    du unto that Deity, and
    in that Respect is it self a part
    of natural Religion. It is also
    a proper Means of preserving
    that awful Sense of Reverence
    towards the Deity in the Mindes
    of Men, which mightily curbs
    their disorderly Inclinations,
    and preservs Regularity and

    H

    11
    Moderation in their very
    Hearts. And further, it is a
    great Help to the entertaining
    of Brotherly Lov amongst
    Neighbors, and therby to the
    Setlement and Peace and Wel-Being
    of Societys. These ar
    al essential Parts of our Duty.
    And therfore an external Profession
    of Religion, having so
    great an Influence therupon,
    ought not to be slighted. But to
    prevent Mistake, I wil ad this
    Word: That, as several Circumstances,
    of Persons, of Time,
    and of Place, may require different
    Methods of making
    this outward Profession, becaus
    one may be more successful
    in som Occasions than in
    others, therfore it is not to be
    supposed that one and the same
    exact Form therof is always
    necessary: But that several
    Alterations may be allowed in
    12
    this Ceremonial Part, according
    to the Exigency of those Circumstances:
    And that which
    way soever contributes most at
    any time to the main End of
    Religion is then to be esteemed
    and chosen as the most perfect.
    S. I now conceiv this wel
    enough. And therfore I intreat
    you to proceed to my Second
    Inquiry, which is about
    the more Notional Part of Religion,
    those Speculative Articles
    of Belief which seem not
    proper to have any great Influence
    upon our Practice.
    F. To that, I say, That if
    those Speculations have really
    no Influence at al upon our
    Practice, then ar they to be
    looked upon as meer Trifles, of
    no real Valu. But if they
    have any Influence that way,
    then, as I said before, they ar
    to be had in more or less Consideration,

    H2

    13
    according as that
    Influence is stronger or weaker.
    The fundamental Point of al
    Points, without which the
    Apostle has observed there
    can be no such thing as Religion,
    is the Belief of the Existence
    of a Deity, and of future
    Rewards and Punishments. The
    Influence of this is Universal,
    it being adapted to the natural
    Facultys of al Mankind; and
    especially to work upon those
    main Springs of Hope, and
    Fear, which ar the chief Movers
    unto Action: And therfore
    it is called the Power
    of God unto Salvation: and it
    is in effect the powerfullest Engine
    of al others to ingage
    Men to their Dutys. There
    ar other Points also, inferior
    indeed to this in Strength and
    general Usefulness, tho of a
    more refined and nobler Nature;
    14
    yet of great Efficacy also,
    where they ar on the one
    side judiciously inculcated, and
    on the other side received into
    Mindes that ar fitly disposed;
    Such Points or Articles I
    mean of Belief, as Work by
    a Principle of Love, and
    whose particular Foundation
    is in Christianity. But I judg
    it not needful to branch out
    these general Heads into so many
    Subdivisions as som have
    don. On the contrary, I rather
    blame the too great Curiosity
    of those Spirits, who by
    such like Nicetys have rendred
    our plain Duty an intricate Science;
    and by laying too great
    Stress upon Points of smal Moment,
    have enervated the
    Strength of the most substantial
    ones. Nevertheless I condemn
    not the Intention of any
    Man, who, finding the Force

    H3

    15
    of any such particular Topic
    upon his own Minde, makes
    use of it to incite himself to
    his Duty. Let him in that
    freely use his own Liberty.
    Onely let him not offer to impose
    his Fancys upon other People.
    For, when al is don, the
    tru Estimate of Opinions, as
    wel as Ceremonys, is only to be
    made by their Aptitude to influence
    our Practice. Whatsoever
    may be helpful to us in the
    Performance of our Duty is to
    be pursued: Whatsoever may be
    a Hindrance in that Performance
    ought to be avoided; and
    whatsoever dos neither help nor
    hinder may be looked upon as
    indifferent. But, as all Men
    ar not equally wrought upon
    by the same Motives, so there
    may and ought to be som Latitude
    allowed in this kinde as
    wel as in the other.
    16
    S. I intreat you, permit me
    to interpose one Word more
    before we quit this Subject.
    The great Indifferency which
    you teach me to have for Doctrins
    that ar meerly speculative, and
    the narrow Reduction of Things
    absolutely necessary to few Heads,
    which you seem to aim at, ar
    so opposite both to the common
    Opinion and Practice of
    the most part of Christians,
    that I would gladly learn either
    how to comport my self
    amongst them in those Respects
    without Offence, or if
    possible, how to oppose them
    with yet more Strength.
    Wherfore if you judg any
    thing further may be conveniently
    added upon that Subject,
    I beseech you not to
    refuse me that Satisfaction.
    F. Truly if thou attendest
    rightly to what I have said already,

    H4

    17
    there is little need of adding
    further. But however I
    wil do it in a few words, that
    may answer both those different
    Ends which thou aimest
    at. And, first, in opposition
    to those Multiplyers of speculative
    and abstruse Notions.
    Let such Men consider that the
    end of Religion is to help the
    meanest and the ignorantest of
    mankinde to Salvation, as wel
    as the richest and the learnedest.
    Any such Notions therfore as
    pass the comprehension of the
    meanest Capacitys ar not to be
    reckoned as things whose knowledg
    is of absolute and indispensable
    necessity to every one. Becaus
    those that fall short of
    that comprehension would
    therby be excluded from a
    possibility of Salvation: And
    I may ad that it is to be feared
    even the subtilest of those
    18
    Doctors themselves would, in
    som case, run great hazard. If
    this simple Consideration wil
    not make them more modest in
    their speculations, and more reserved
    in broaching them, it
    may be justly doubted they ar
    wedded therunto by som other
    Ty than the bare lov of the
    Truth. But if they wil hereupon
    complain of an imaginary
    Injury don to them, in confining
    their lofty Fancys to
    that low rank of contemplations
    which occupy the vulgar,
    thou mayst rectify their mistake
    by looking back to what
    I have already declared unto
    thee, viz. that every man
    may make use of such speculations
    as he findes really to
    have the most effectual power
    upon himself to ingage him to
    the performance of his Duty.
    Let that onely be their end;
    and in order therunto let them
    19
    freely exercise al the Facultys
    of their own Soules: the more
    the better. But I must stil
    repeat, that in matters of such
    abstracted Speculation as we
    now speak of, no Man ought to
    impose upon another. One man's
    Opinions ought no more to be prescribed
    for the entertainment of
    another Man's minde, than one
    man's Appetite ought to be the rule
    of chusing food for another Man's
    Stomack. Whatsoever is universally
    found useful by every
    one, either for Body or Minde,
    may be determined to be universally
    necessary: but nothing
    else. At least I say at
    least nothing can be determined
    to be universally necessary
    which the far greatest
    part of Mankinde ar utterly
    uncapable of receiving. Oh
    that we could once see an expurgatory
    Index of School-divinity
    framed upon these Principles!
    20
    How would the Peace
    of the World be restored and
    secured, by rooting out the very
    ground of al contention!
    The work is not hard to comprehend.
    These Rules ar easily
    applied to particular Cases.
    But I must leav those general
    Reflections, to return to thee,
    and tel thee that if thou appliest
    what I have said to the [desi*]
    *ou intimated'st of learning
    how to comport thy self
    amongst other Men of different
    Opinions, thou wilst perceiv
    therby that things indifferent
    ar not worth the pains of contention,
    nor can they compensate
    the Evils that may attend
    it: wherfore a prudent compliance
    therin is for the most part
    adviseable. But at the same
    time, nay always, thou art
    bound to preserve thy own
    Thoughts inviolated in matters
    21
    essential; and neither to Act
    nor declare any thing contrary
    therunto; and also not in any
    wise to be an Instrument of violating
    that Priviledg in others
    which thou claimest unto thy self.
    The faithful observance of
    these Rules, this gentle and
    peaceable Disposition, wil I
    assure thee help much to carry
    thee smoothly through [*he]
    roughest Passages that thou [illegible]
    mayst happen to meet [illegible]
    in thy Life. And this is now
    ful enough for me to say upon
    that Head. The further application
    thereof I refer unto thy
    own Sagacity.
    S. What you have said, is
    indeed abundantly sufficient.
    And I wil be careful to make
    use of it in my own Practice,
    with al possible Modesty and
    Inoffensiveness. Onely one
    Difficulty more remains, which
    22
    I have already propounded,
    about the Condition of those
    Persons who fal short of that
    Performance which your preceding
    Rules seem to require.
    But that Difficulty, I confess,
    seems to me very considerable,
    and withal something formidable.
    For I am sensible of
    the general Defectiveness of
    Mankinde in that respect, and
    therfore dread the Consequences
    therof in my own Person.
    If you can free me from that
    Anxiety I acknowledg that my
    Minde wil be at great Eas;
    and I shal then cease from importuning
    you any further
    with such manner of Questions
    as these have been.
    F. Expect not that I should
    eas thee by any Dispensation
    from those Dutys which the
    Law of God exacts. No:
    With him Obedience is better
    23
    than Sacrifice.
    And I have already
    sufficiently proved that
    we can have no other certain
    Mark, but our Obedience, of
    our having any Interest in the
    Sacrifice even of Christ himself.
    That therfore is the thing that
    lys upon us to look after; To
    assure our Interest in him that
    way; and then we need not
    doubt of our participating of
    those Benefits which he came
    to procure unto Mankinde. I
    say then, That our Obligation to
    actual Obedience is indispensible.
    But nevertheless I would not
    have thee look upon it with so
    uncomfortable a Prospect as
    thou seemest to do. For tho
    I wil acknowledg it to be hard,
    yet I must assert that it is not
    impossible to be performed. And
    that being so, the Incouragements
    propounded ar abundantly
    sufficient to ingage any
    24
    reasonable Man in the Attempt.
    This Argument is
    Copious. But I wil indeavor,
    as I have don hitherto, to bring
    al to the shortest and directest
    Issu that I can. Remember
    then that in thy natural Researches,
    thou hast established
    one of the most essential Propertys
    of the supreme Deity to
    be Goodness. Now observ how
    inconsistant it is with that
    Idea, to suppose him to require
    more from us than he has
    capacitated us to perform. 'Tis
    the unjust Charge of the slothful
    Servant, that his Lord
    expected to reap where he had
    not sown; than which nothing
    can be more injurious to the
    Divine Perfections. The Obedience
    therfore that he requires
    must be such as is suitable to
    the Capacity of Humane Nature
    accompanyed with those
    25
    Assistances which he affords it.
    He expects not from us the
    Perfection of pure Intellectual
    Spirits, but such things
    as Men cloathed with Flesh
    may attain unto. And from
    every Man in particular he
    expects Performances proportionable
    to the particular Circumstances
    of his Condition.
    This is perfectly reasonable in
    it self, and it is no less perfectly
    established in Scripture.
    Our Savior declares in many
    places that the Measure of
    Men's Transgressions should not
    so much be taken by the Acts
    themselvs, as by the measure of
    Light and Conviction against
    which they were committed. And
    in one Place he dos it in
    these express Words, That the
    Servant who knew his Lord's
    Wil, and prepared not himself,
    neither did according to his
    26
    Wil, should be beaten with
    many Stripes: But that he who
    knew it not, and did commit
    things worthy of Stripes, should
    be beaten but with few. For
    he
    ads unto whomsoever much is
    given, of him shal be much required.

    Thus therfore it is
    evident that the Dutys required
    from us bear a Proportion
    to the Knowledg, and Strength,
    and Opportunity, or in a word
    to the Capacity given us. So
    that they ar not absolute Impossibilitys,
    and therfore neither
    ought we to be dejected
    with despair of their Atchievment.
    S. I can not wel answer either
    your Argument or your
    Proof. But nevertheless I finde
    in effect, by Experience, that
    al Mankinde fal much short of
    Perfection. And therfore this
    seeming Appearance of it in

    I

    27
    Theory dos not yet free me
    from those Anxietys which
    arise from its manifest and real
    Defect.
    F. Have Patience a little.
    We shal quickly com to a better
    understanding of the thing.
    Thou allowest my Proof to be
    good, that the Perfection required
    from us is attainable;
    but yet thou affirmest that in
    effect it is never attained. These
    things ar inconsistant one with
    another. Let us inquire therfore
    whether there be not som
    Mistake in thy Notion of Perfection.
    For probably it is in
    this as in other Debates, that
    the Knot lys onely in the right
    Explication of som Term. Our
    Wranglings ar ordinarily more
    about Words than Things, and
    most Men would be of the very
    same Minde, if they did but once
    rightly understand one another.
    28
    This Mistake of thine for
    such I presume it to be I had
    designed to obviate, by telling
    thee already that the Obedience
    required from us is such
    as is suitable to the Capacity
    of Humane Nature. Now I
    desire thee to observ that if
    thou lookest for such a Degree
    of Perfection in that Obedience
    as is absolutely abov that
    Capacity, thou art in a manifest
    Error: For that can not
    be the Degree that is required
    from us. Let us see then what
    it is. The Expressions truly
    ar very comprehensive and
    strong: viz. That we must be
    Holy, Pure, and Perfect, as our
    Father who is in Heaven is Perfect.
    Wel, what can this signify?
    The absolute Perfection
    of God is certainly not attainable
    by such Creatures as we
    ar. Wherfore the Sense of that,

    I2

    29
    and al such like Commands,
    must needs be, that as the Nature
    and Essence of God is placed
    in the highest Degree of
    al Perfection, so We should
    tend to the highest Degree of
    that Perfection which our Natures
    ar capable of; and that
    we should faithfully improve
    the Talents that ar put into
    our Hands, the Opportunitys
    and Advantages that ar offered
    us, to that purpose. This, I
    say, is possitively required of us,
    and less than this wil not serv
    the Turn.
    S. I beg your excuse that I
    cannot yet yield a ful assent
    to what you drive at, until
    you pleas to explain more particularly
    to me what is that
    very degree of perfection which
    you say our Natures ar capable
    of, that so I may examin
    whether in effect it be ever attained
    or no.
    30
    F. Thou dost wel: and I
    wil endeavor to satisfy thee.
    Remember then that it is not
    the Perfection of God, nor of
    Angels, but of Men: and that
    neither is it the same Degree of
    Perfection in each individual
    Man, but different according to
    Men's different capacitys. In a
    word, it is not Impeccability,
    but Sincerity. And
    now I wil further shew thee
    what this Sincerity means; and
    that it is the very thing required
    of us; as also that it is
    attainable; and that it has been
    attained. After which I advise
    thee to dispute no longer
    about it, but to apply thy self
    to practice, and let the effects
    therof shine forth in thy life.
    Sincerity is nothing else but an
    Honest, Upright, Hearty, and
    constant application of Minde,
    accompanied with the same faithful

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    31
    exertion of al possible endeavors,
    to do the thing required.
    Tis the doing of al that possibly
    can be don, and not more. That
    this is required appears from
    God's demanding the whole
    Heart, and declaring the
    inconsistancy of his service
    with that of the World: I say
    this shows that he requires the
    utmost exercise of al our Powers
    in the obeying of his Commandements.
    And where the
    Heart is thus sincere and upright,
    the Intention honest,
    and the Minde willing, I do
    not say that the wil is taken
    for the deed, but I affirm that
    the Deed is accepted according
    to the Measure of the Capacity,
    according to that a Man hath,
    and not according to that he hath
    not.
    And hence it is that in
    Scripture a willing Heart is
    frequently stiled a perfect Heart.
    32
    And the Apostle Paul in
    the same place where he acknowledges
    that he had not
    really attained to Perfection, but
    was onely pressing forwards towards
    it, nevertheless accounts
    himself amongst the number of
    those that ar perfect: undoubtedly,
    because his endeavors
    were sincere and constant.
    Now that this sort of Perfection
    is attainable is evident in
    it self, beyond any Proof that
    can be made of it. For it is nothing
    else but doing al that ever a
    Man can do. And surely no Man
    is so absurd as to deny the possibility
    of his doing what he can do.
    But here it wil be good to subjoin,
    that this notion of doing
    al a Man can do is not a palliation
    for gross and frequent
    miscarriages. On the contrary,
    it is an absolute obligation
    to overcom them. For there
    is no Man but by a constant

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    33
    watchfulness may be so far
    Master of his own actions as
    not to fal frequently into the
    same known fault. Let us
    consider it in a familiar example.
    What so common as
    Swearing? Now can it be
    doubted but any habitual
    Swearer may, with a strong
    Resolution and diligent Care,
    retain himself one quarter of
    an Hour from that Sin? Surely
    it can not. But if a quarter
    of an Hour, why not then
    half an Hour, why not an
    Hour, a Day, a Week, a Month,
    a Year? The same Care wil
    stil produce the same Effect.
    And not only so, but the Work
    wil be more easy in the End
    than in the Beginning. For the
    strength of the Habit, which
    in the Beginning swayd powerfully
    towards Vice, and made
    the first Resistance difficult,
    34
    wil in the End help as effectually
    towards the Work of
    Reformation, and make the
    Conquest easy. Then wil be
    experienced the Truth of those
    Sayings, That the Commandments
    of Christ ar not grievous,
    but that his Yoke is
    easy and his Burden light. And
    what I say on this particular
    Instance of Swearing wil hold
    in al other known Transgressions.
    Resolution and Watchfulness
    wil overcom them. He
    that makes it as much his Business
    to reform his Life as another
    dos to learn some Trade,
    or Art, wil succeed as effectually
    in that Design as the
    other in this. The one may
    fail now and then: But in the
    main he practises his Art exactly,
    and is therfore reputed
    a perfect Master.
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